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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Huh? Is anyone here concerned about reality?

Sorry about the inflammatory title, but I see a troubling trend here. I see people buying all kinds of addons and mods but little hard data to show that any of it is actually worth the money and in some cases has been proven to be harmful.

I am new here and do not have an Elantra Sport yet but I will next month. have been in the automotive and motorcycle high performance scene since the 1980s. Yes I am old, and experienced. I have modified things before it was popular to do so. How about a Yamaha RD350LC motorcycle that went over 150mph? How about a normally aspirated 1987 Honda CRX that went into the 14s in the 1/4 mile? How about a Yamaha FZR1000 that had over 170HP?

My point is not to brag. My point is to show that I did things that I could measure their results.

What I see here is many people throwing piles of money at bolt on mods, delete this or that, and no proof that they spent their money wisely. If a person loves modifying for modifying's sake and don't care, no problem. If someone is blindly blowing money on things that don't have any proven benefit and can actually harm performance or reliability, I see a problem.

My old fart advice? Don't buy anything that promises "between 8-20 HP" without a guarantee that it will and without any evidence from the seller that it actually does. Anybody can claim what they want but without anything to back it up, it is just sales BS.

An example: K&N filters.... Do you think that the engineers at Hyundai know nothing about air filtration? They know nothing about the engine they are designing? How about making sure that the least amount of OIL and air particulates get onto the back of those build up prone intake valves? Do you think that adding a source of oil before the valves is going to reduce the amount of oil carbonizing on the valves? Do you think that wide mesh gauze is better at filtering air going into the engine? C'mon people, stop believing and start thinking.

Another example: Tork tube.... another piece of snake oil without proof that it does anything. The manufacturer makes claims and shows nothing to show it does anything except take money from your wallet. If it is the same diameter as the original resonator, it flows the same amount of air. You like the sound of more buzz whine and zoom? Good, spend the money. If you expect any horse power increase, you are believing in woowoo until someone actually demonstrates any benefit with real measured data. If you install it and "feel" a difference, that is called the placebo effect. People in general cannot feel a difference of 10% of horsepower by the seat of their pants. If you think Hyundai would spend any time on engineering and extra parts to make the car slower for a minute change in noise, wtf are you smoking? Slower also means less efficient, So if you believe that Hyundia would do this to lower efficiency over minute change in noise, wtf again.

Hyundia spent millions of dollars designing and building and redesigning this car. What were their goals? Price, performance and reliability. Each was balanced to meet what they thought would make them the most money and would make happy customers. Yes, compromises were made. Usually the compromise is in favor of reliability. Can you make your car faster? Yes! Does this make the car less reliable? Yes! Can you buy real parts that are proven to make the care more to your preference on compromise? YES! Should you buy only parts tor mods that are proven with data and measurement to work? What do you think the answer is?

So if you want to blow money on useless gadgets and junk, be my guest. If you want things that actually work, stop believing and start demanding data and guarantees. Don't buy from anyone who promises things without any proof, without any data, and just marketing BS like "up to %". This is weasel speak for "we take your money, you take your chances sucker".
 

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Geeze man, tell us how you really feel. If I were you, I would contact these companies and ask for dyno sheets before making a fool of yourself on an internet forum.

People modify cars because they want to. It's their money, so why does it matter to you?

Great way to make yourself known here. Already makes you look like an ass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am speaking reality and trying to help people not blow money on something useless for what they want to spend money on.

I did say that if people are happy to play and modify for the sake of modifying, I have no problem. Did I not? Did I say that spending your money the way you want was wrong? No....

I am speaking to those who are looking to buy things to make improvements and are innocently being ripped off. How can trying to help be offensive? How can being up front with my position be offensive? I am trying to help the uneducated and innocent against the snake oil salesmen.

Would you prefer happy stories and pink unicorns in my posts or would you rather have truth and honesty?

How is calling me an ass anyway to discuss things in a civilized fashion?
 

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Hyundia spent millions of dollars designing and building and redesigning this car. What were their goals? Price, performance and reliability. Each was balanced to meet what they thought would make them the most money and would make happy customers. Yes, compromises were made. Usually the compromise is in favor of reliability.
I would argue that compromises were made in the interest of profits. Hyundai, like all other car manufacturers, design their cars to appeal to the broadest spectrum of customers - the majority of which don't give a rats ass if the downpipe on their car looks like something put together from scraps, or if there is a resonator after the turbo that creates a restriction, or if the car has body roll, etc.

Any enthusiast is going to realize that these parts are designed to reduce cost and make the car more palatable to the masses - same as putting parts into the engine that limit it's design abilities. If Hyundai was really concerned about reliability, then why not use better parts in the engine.

Experience with the 1.6T's in the Velosters has shown that our engine is clearly capable of so much more! And look at the Peugeot 308 GTI which produces 266 BHP from a 1.6 litre engine. Does Peugeot not care about reliability?

In the end, it all comes down to profits. All car manufacturers pick a target market and then design, build and redesign the car to make the highest profit for the company, while satisfying the majority of their target market. Some of us are just not in the majority!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I agree, the possibility is that the manufacturer is more worried about profit for most things. Anything that hurts reliability is also likely to hurt their reputation and therefore their profit on the long term.

I never said that people should not mod their cars. I said that that people should not get ripped off by BS claims and woowoo beliefs that Hyundia put extra parts in to hurt things, like the resonator that is replaced by the Tork Tube.

I will most probably modify my car. I always have and always will. I will make a decision to alter the balance of reliability vs performance. That will be my choice as it is the choice of anyone. I am objecting to snake oil sales and companies pushing parts on the innocent that actually do nothing or worse actually do harm.

I am not against modding. I am against BS and money spent with the intent of getting a result and getting nothing or worse.
 

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People modify to make the vehicle their own, something to connect with with they drive it and something to talk about with other car enthusiasts. If a modification isn’t worth the time and money, someone will usually post it in open forum suggesting such.

But I mean. We really shouldn’t have to explain this to you.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I really shouldn't have to explain to you what I wrote. If you want to read something else into it, too bad. Sorry I am trying to help some people. Again, read what I say, not what you want to see.
 

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I am speaking reality and trying to help people not blow money on something useless for what they want to spend money on.

I did say that if people are happy to play and modify for the sake of modifying, I have no problem. Did I not? Did I say that spending your money the way you want was wrong? No....

I am speaking to those who are looking to buy things to make improvements and are innocently being ripped off. How can trying to help be offensive? How can being up front with my position be offensive? I am trying to help the uneducated and innocent against the snake oil salesmen.

Would you prefer happy stories and pink unicorns in my posts or would you rather have truth and honesty?

How is calling me an ass anyway to discuss things in a civilized fashion?
Your whole post just comes across as negative nancy and "I know more than you so listen to me" blah, blah. If you've been around here long enough, you will know that the only companies making parts for these cars right now back up everything they sell with a guarantee. If you don't see a dyno chart proving gains, ask them. Chances are they have one. It's a very intimate community with this car, vendors are usually able to answer questions or address concerns almost immediately. Nobody needs a lecture.
 

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Sorry about the inflammatory title, but I see a troubling trend here. I see people buying all kinds of addons and mods but little hard data to show that any of it is actually worth the money and in some cases has been proven to be harmful.
But you seem to be starting from the assumption that the people who are modding their cars can't see through the B.S. and are only doing it because they aren't living in reality. Having been a part of this community for almost a year, and part of the car enthusiast community for over 30 years, my experience is that the majority of us are modding our cars with very specific goals in mind.

I haven't gotten the impression from this page - or any of the KDM facebook pages - that we're all a bunch of noobies willing to buy whatever snake oil some slick salesman is selling.

I put a muffler delete on my car because I hate the huge, ridiculous mufflers that the manufacturers put on their cars. If it increases the efficiency of my car, great! But I would have done it anyway. I added a Sway Bar and Tie Bar and noticed immediate improvements - made the car drive like it should have from the factory.

Eventually, I'll get around to replacing the resonator to reduce the restriction, but also because I like the sound of the turbo spooling.

Where you see "a troubling trend", I see an educated, savvy group of enthusiasts who share information and advice and mod or don't mod their vehicles with a distinct goal in mind.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Have fun people, I am outta here. I have no more patience for people insulting others for no reason. I have no time to write things people don't take the time to read and understand. I have no time for more internet BS. I was called an ass for first post other than my introduction thread and that is fair. I don't have to put up with it so I go. Don't worry you won't hear from me again. I have asked for my account to be deleted.
 

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Have fun people, I am outta here. I have no more patience for people insulting others for no reason. I have no time to write things people don't take the time to read and understand. I have no time for more internet BS. I was called an ass for first post other than my introduction thread and that is fair. I don't have to put up with it so I go. Don't worry you won't hear from me again. I have asked for my account to be deleted.
Sorry man, you just came across pretty terrible in your first post telling us everything we already knew. Our response is that the aftermarket for this car is REALLY good and nobody should worry about anything. Have a good one. :cool:
 

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Have fun people, I am outta here. I have no more patience for people insulting others for no reason. I have no time to write things people don't take the time to read and understand. I have no time for more internet BS. I was called an ass for first post other than my introduction thread and that is fair. I don't have to put up with it so I go. Don't worry you won't hear from me again. I have asked for my account to be deleted.
You came in here acting like a know it all to a bunch of very knowledgeable members, what did you expect? Hate to see ya go, the ES/KDM community is probably one of the best I’ve been apart of.
 

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I'll speak for the weighted shift knob and rear sway bar i installed. Sure they can't measure the performance- maybe the sway bar with track times but still that would be variable based on driver performance and weather conditions. The shift knob [feels] so much better and slides into gear much much easier. Again another modification that can't be measure but is something you need to [feel] to understand the benefit.

My advise, go back to elementary school and have this argument with the 4rth graders.
 

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Slower also means less efficient, So if you believe that Hyundia would do this to lower efficiency over minute change in noise, wtf again.
You must not understand modern automakers.
 

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Slower also means less efficient, So if you believe that Hyundia would do this to lower efficiency over minute change in noise, wtf again.

Absolutely not true, Cars have a range of optimum best efficiency and a measurable peak.
Fuel efficiency is rather poor when put-putting about in first gear but raises as your speed reaches it's optimum due to the mechanical advantages from the gearing. As air pressure on the forward facing parts of the car increases due to speed the efficiency drops.

P.S. You don't have to leave the forum just because people don't agree with you...chillllllllll the f**k out. Relax, open your mind and try to pick up what other people are laying down. Stick around to learn and grow with the rest of us.
 

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I am speaking reality and trying to help people not blow money on something useless for what they want to spend money on.

I did say that if people are happy to play and modify for the sake of modifying, I have no problem. Did I not? Did I say that spending your money the way you want was wrong? No....

I am speaking to those who are looking to buy things to make improvements and are innocently being ripped off. How can trying to help be offensive? How can being up front with my position be offensive? I am trying to help the uneducated and innocent against the snake oil salesmen.

Would you prefer happy stories and pink unicorns in my posts or would you rather have truth and honesty?

How is calling me an ass anyway to discuss things in a civilized fashion?
Too bad he didn't stay long enough to regale us with the stories of the pink unicorns. Bet those suckers can run low 13s if you powdercoat the horn the right color. LOL
 

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I might have an unpopular opinion here but I feel like I wanted to hear him out more. I'm not much for motorcycles and modding them, but the knowledge or perspective he has would have been interesting to get. As far as modded civics unless they're done well, I don't look twice at them. The area where I live is popular to just put a fart cannon, springs, and hall of mirrors on civics and the whole world thinks they can pull 10s.


TLDR

I do feel like the ass comment was unnecessary and I wanted to know more about how he went about modding.
 

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Too bad he didn't stay long enough to regale us with the stories of the pink unicorns. Bet those suckers can run low 13s if you powdercoat the horn the right color. LOL
Red is the only color that adds HP.:D
 
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